IBM Security QRadar vs LogRhythm SIEM comparison

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Microsoft Logo
32,763 views|18,195 comparisons
92% willing to recommend
IBM Logo
15,293 views|9,299 comparisons
91% willing to recommend
LogRhythm Logo
10,202 views|5,819 comparisons
89% willing to recommend
Comparison Buyer's Guide
Executive Summary
Updated on Jul 12, 2023

We performed a comparison between IBM Security QRadar and LogRhythm SIEM based on our users’ reviews in five categories. After reading all of the collected data, you can find our conclusion below.

  • Features: IBM Security QRadar users say the solution provides extensive information and helpful leads for locating pertinent data. Users praised LogRhythm SIEM for its user-friendly centralized dashboard, strong integration capabilities, and event-filtering capabilities. QRadar stands out with its comprehensive network visibility and strong SIEM capabilities. IBM Security QRadar could improve its rule deployment and lower its false positive rate. Users would also like expanded storage capacity, streamlined user management, and a more mature architecture. LogRhythm users requested expanded log storage, better load balancing, and streamlined search capabilities.

  • Service and Support: Some customers of IBM Security QRadar have had trouble connecting with knowledgeable support staff and experienced delayed responses. LogRhythm SIEM was generally praised for its helpful and knowledgeable support, although there have been occasional delays and knowledge problems.

  • Ease of Deployment: IBM Security QRadar's initial setup can be complex for users without expertise, and the difficulty may vary depending on the size of the data set. Small or medium-sized companies generally find LogRhythm SIEM's setup to be straightforward. However, it is more time-consuming and complex for enterprise deployments involving multiple components or vendors, and users often require assistance from professional services or LogRhythm-certified engineers.

  • Pricing: IBM Security QRadar can be costly because users need to buy new hardware to upgrade. LogRhythm SIEM’s license typically includes all elements. However, enterprise customers may encounter complexities related to additional features and add-ons.

  • ROI: IBM Security QRadar delivers a high return on investment, improving security through its advanced user behavior analytics. LogRhythm SIEM has proven to be highly valuable, delivering a significant ROI by reducing the mean time to detect and respond.

Comparison Results: Our users prefer LogRhythm SIEM over IBM QRadar. Users value LogRhythm SIEM for its seamless integration, effective log correlation, and efficient event filtering. LogRhythm SIEM yields a solid return on investment and offers stellar customer service. Customers find LogRhythm SIEM's pricing and licensing competitive, making it a more affordable option for those with budget constraints.

To learn more, read our detailed IBM Security QRadar vs. LogRhythm SIEM Report (Updated: April 2024).
768,246 professionals have used our research since 2012.
Featured Review
Quotes From Members
We asked business professionals to review the solutions they use.
Here are some excerpts of what they said:
Pros
"The best feature is that onboarding to the SIM solution is quite easy. If you are using cloud-based solutions, it's just a few clicks to migrate it.""The machine learning and artificial intelligence on offer are great.""The AI capability is one of the main features of the solution because I believe that in the market, there are few solutions that are providing security solutions based on AI and machine learning.""One of the most valuable features of Microsoft Sentinel is that it's cloud-based.""The product can integrate with any device.""It is able to connect to an ever-growing number of platforms and systems within the Microsoft ecosystem, such as Azure Active Directory and Microsoft 365 or Office 365, as well as to external services and systems that can be brought in and managed. We can manage on-premises infrastructure. We can manage not just the things that are running in Azure in the public cloud, but through Azure Arc and the hybrid capabilities, we can monitor on-premises servers and endpoints. We can monitor VMware infrastructure, for instance, running as part of a hybrid environment.""If you know how to do KQL (kusto query language) queries, which are how you query the log data inside Sentinel, the information is pretty rich. You can get down to a good level of detail regarding event information or notifications.""The automation rules and playbooks are the most useful that I've seen. A number of other places segregate the automation and playbook as separate tools, whereas Microsoft is a SIEM and SOAR tool in one."

More Microsoft Sentinel Pros →

"The tool's most valuable feature is log source management. It enables us to connect to various log sources, including content, authentications, or other customized integrations. These integrations can be tailored for use with other platforms that don’t already have built-in IBM add-ons.""The tool helps with infrastructure, application, and network monitoring.""The most valuable thing about QRadar is that you have a single window into your network, SIEM, network flows, and risk management of your assets. If you use Splunk, for instance, then you still need a full packet capture solution, whereas the full packet capture solution is integrated within QRadar. Its application ecosystem makes it very powerful in terms of doing analysis.""Most of the features are good. It is an excellent solution.""IBM Qradar's ability to simplify the number of events, not only on a technical level but by making that information easy to pan through the orchestration deduplication. It is very impressive given that we have hundreds of devices that send event logs through.""Providing real-time visibility for threat detection and prioritization - QRadar SIEM provides contextual and actionable surveillance across the entire IT infrastructure.""It has a lot of good correlation rules. From a customer's point of view, it is one of the best solutions because you don't need to create correlation rules from scratch. You just review them and customize them as you want.""What I like the most about it is that you can very easily install and configure it. As compared to other SIEM solutions, for which you need to know and do a lot more to prepare your SIEM environment, QRadar is much simpler to install and configure. There are various options in the Admin console. In the Admin tab, you can design dashboards and view various graphs. It has a lot of attractive features, and you don't need to configure everything on your own."

More IBM Security QRadar Pros →

"The product is great for medium to large-scale organizations.""The PCI compliance pieces that help us produce reports for our external auditor, and their support.""The dashboards in the LogRhythm SIEM really help us as a starting point. It gives us a starting point we can go to every day. We walk through several dashboards to see anomalous activity for further investigation.""Provides visibility into the network.""The Web Console is my favorite. It enables me, at a glance, to see the health of the environments.""This solution has improved our organization in many different ways. The biggest benefit is being able to view all information in one dashboard instead of having to look at several different applications and dashboards. I can see information across our entire environment and every aspect of our network.""AXON has the ability to add and compare use cases.""The user interface is pretty good compared to other SIEM tools."

More LogRhythm SIEM Pros →

Cons
"The playbook development environment is not as rich as it should be. There are multiple occasions when we face problems while creating the playbook.""We have been working with multiple customers, and every time we onboard a customer, we are missing an essential feature that surprisingly doesn't exist in Sentinel. We searched the forums and knowledge bases but couldn't find a solution. When you onboard new customers, you need to enable the data connectors. That part is easy, but you must create rules from scratch for every associated connector. You click "next," "next," "next," and it requires five clicks for each analytical rule. Imagine we have a customer with 150 rules.""It would be good to have some connectors for third-party SIEM solutions. Many customers are struggling with the integration of Azure Sentinel with their on-premise SIEM. Microsoft is changing the log structure many times a year, which can corrupt a custom integration. It would be good to have some connectors developed by Microsoft or supply vendors, but they are not providing such functionality or tools.""I believe one of the challenges I encountered was the absence of live training sessions, even with the option to pay for them.""If their UI was a bit more streamlined and easy to find when I need it, then that would be a great improvement.""When it comes to ingesting Azure native log sources, some of the log sources are specific to the subscription, and it is not always very clear.""Given that I am in the small business space, I wish they would make it easier to operate Sentinel without being a Sentinel expert. Examples of things that could be easier are creating alerts and automations from scratch and designing workbooks.""Sometimes, it is hard for us to estimate the costs of Microsoft Sentinel."

More Microsoft Sentinel Cons →

"They should speed up the incident response and also, at the same time, reduce the amount of manual effort that is required.""Some of the cloud apps need improvement.""We sometimes get an error about the hard drive. Approximately once in two months, we can't find the logs, and they go missing, which is a terrible issue. We are getting support for this issue from our support company.""The pricing of the solution is a bit high. If they could lower it, that would be ideal.""QRadar needs a lot of fine tuning""There should be easier and wider integration opportunities. There should be more opportunities for integration with CTI info sharing areas. On platforms where you exchange CTI, there should be more visibility connected to what we share, what we can reach, or what options are connected to CTI info sharing. This is one area where they could add value because we cannot integrate it easily with QRadar. If a client has a legacy or already existing solutions for CTI, we cannot ask them to forget it because we cannot guarantee that QRadar is able to deliver everything connected to this area.""There are a lot of things they are working on and a lot of technologies that are not yet there. They should probably work out a better reserve with their ecosystem of business partners and create wider and more in-depth qualities, third-party tools, and add-ons. These things really give immediate business value. For instance, there are many limitations in using SAP, EBS, or Micro-Dynamics. A lot of things that are happening in those platforms could also be monitored and allowed from the cybersecurity risks perspective. IBM might be leaving this gap or empty space for business partners. Some larger organizations might already be doing this. It would be very nice if IBM can make some artificial intelligence part free of charge for all current QRadar users. This would be a big advantage as compared to other competitors. There are companies that are going in different directions. Of course, you can't do everything inside QRadar. In general, it might be very good for all players to provide more use cases, especially regarding data protection and leakage prevention. There are some who are already doing some kind of file integrity or gathering some more information from all possible technologies for building anything related to the user and data analysis, content analysis, and management regarding the data protection.""IBM QRadar has outdated technology, and this is its area for improvement. When you try to implement an analytic expression, it's not updated. The solution doesn't support newer technologies, and it doesn't update regularly. For example, around the world, others implement new technologies, while IBM updates later than others."

More IBM Security QRadar Cons →

"Sometimes the Platform Manager crashes because it's built around Windows.""I would like a more fuller implementation of STIX/TAXII so I can pull in some of the government lists without having to go implement a whole new STIX/TAXII platform.""We're still struggling to get a real return on it and finding something that isn't false noise.""Sometimes the error-logging is not altogether helpful. For example, on an upgrade, a systems data processor, a Windows box, was throwing an error code like 1083. Then it just stopped and it died right out of the installer and nobody looked. We searched through Google and what it means is the Windows Firewall wasn't turned on so that it could create a rule for the product. Why wouldn't they bubble up that description so that I wouldn't have to call support and I could just know, "Okay, the firewall wasn't turned on. Turn it back on. Re-run the installer and keep going."""I think they probably need to, because a lot of companies are having this cloud-first strategy, where anything that's new has to go into the cloud for some reason.""It's not easy for someone new to the solution.""I have probably submitted half a dozen log parser requests, and I keep finding more stuff that we need to keep an eye on that doesn't have a definition in LogRhythm.""The console installation is an area with a shortcoming in the solution that needs improvement. If LogRhythm SIEM can offer a web console, it would be great."

More LogRhythm SIEM Cons →

Pricing and Cost Advice
  • "It comes with a Microsoft subscription which the customer has, so they don't have to invest somewhere else."
  • "It is a consumption-based license model. bands at 100, 200, 400 GB per day etc. Azure Sentinel Pricing | Microsoft Azure"
  • "Good monthly operational cost model for the detection and response outcomes delivered, M365 logs don't count toward the limits which is a good benefit."
  • "I have had mixed feedback. At one point, I heard a client say that it sometimes seems more expensive. Most of the clients are on Office 365 or M365, and they are forced to take Azure SIEM because of the integration."
  • "It is kind of like a sliding scale. There are different tiers of pricing that go from $100 per day up to $3,500 per day. So, it just kind of depends on how much data is being stored. There can be additional costs to the standard license other than the additional data. It just kind of depends on what other services you're spinning up in Azure, or if you're using something like Azure log analytics."
  • "I am just paying for the log space with Azure Sentinel. It costs us about $2,000 a month. Most of the logs are free. We are only paying money for Azure Firewall logs because email logs or Azure AD logs are free to use for us."
  • "Sentinel is a bit expensive. If you can figure a way of configuring it to meet your needs, then you can find a way around the cost."
  • "Azure Sentinel is very costly, or at least it appears to be very costly. The costs vary based on your ingestion and your retention charges."
  • More Microsoft Sentinel Pricing and Cost Advice →

  • "found other solutions, with more features at the same cost or less. You don’t have to leave the Gartner Magic Quadrant to beat their price."
  • "Most of the time, it is easier and cheaper to buy a new product or the QRadar box."
  • "IBM's Qradar is not for small companie. Unfortunately, it would be 'overkill' to place it plainly. The pricing would be too much."
  • "IBM's Qradar is not for small companie. Unfortunately, it would be 'overkill' to place it plainly. The pricing would be too much."
  • "Go through a vulnerability assessment review for price breaks. A virtualized solution will also cut down on cost."
  • "It is expensive. It is not a product that I can provide for SMBs. It is a program that I can only provide for really large enterprises."
  • "The maintenance costs are high."
  • "Pricing (based on EPS) will be more accurate."
  • More IBM Security QRadar Pricing and Cost Advice →

  • "Look closely at the cost of licensing of other products. This should include setups and the need for support services. I did a RFQ to 2 other vendors before choosing this product."
  • "If you don't have your staff, absolutely look into the co-pilot and factor that into your cost evaluation."
  • "I would recommend that whatever sales quotes to them upfront, they will probably go up. Because they are probably going to outgrow that very quickly or once they start getting everything into it, they are going to have to move up anyway."
  • "Look for whatever will give you the most value. That's the main point. It is not one size fits all."
  • "I would recommend talking to the rep. That's the biggest thing because they will know what questions to ask."
  • "In comparison to the competition, they are more affordable. This allows us to do more with less."
  • "The solution has provided us with consistency and increased staff productivity through orchestrated automated work flows by at least 20 percent."
  • "I have seen a measurable decrease in the mean time to detect and respond to threats. We went from not detecting them to detecting them. We can actually pick up what is anomalous in our network now."
  • More LogRhythm SIEM Pricing and Cost Advice →

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    Comparison Review
    Vinod Shankar
    Questions from the Community
    Top Answer:Yes, Azure Sentinel is a SIEM on the Cloud. Multiple data sources can be uploaded and analyzed with Azure Sentinel and… more »
    Top Answer:It would really depend on (1) which logs you need to ingest and (2) what are your use cases Splunk is easy for… more »
    Top Answer:We like that Azure Sentinel does not require as much maintenance as legacy SIEMs that are on-premises. Azure Sentinel is… more »
    Top Answer:It mostly depends on your use-cases and environment. Exabeam and Securonix have a stronger UEBA feature set, friendlier… more »
    Top Answer:For tools I’d recommend:  -SIEM- LogRhythm -SOAR- Palo Alto XSOAR Doing commercial w/o both (or at least an XDR) is… more »
    Top Answer:The event collector, flow collector, PCAP and SOAR are valuable.
    Top Answer:Rony, Daniel's answer is right on the money.  There are many solutions for each in the market, a lot depends upon your… more »
    Top Answer:LogRhythm does a very good job of helping SOCs manage their workflows.
    Top Answer:LogRhythm's pricing and licensing are extremely competitive and it's one of the top three reasons we continue to invest… more »
    Comparisons
    Also Known As
    Azure Sentinel
    IBM QRadar, QRadar SIEM, QRadar UBA, QRadar on Cloud, QRadar, IBM QRadar User Behavior Analytics, IBM QRadar Advisor with Watson
    LogRhythm NextGen SIEM, LogRhythm, LogRhythm Threat Lifecycle Management, LogRhythm TLM
    Learn More
    Overview

    Microsoft Sentinel is a scalable, cloud-native, security information event management (SIEM) and security orchestration automated response (SOAR) solution that lets you see and stop threats before they cause harm. Microsoft Sentinel delivers intelligent security analytics and threat intelligence across the enterprise, providing a single solution for alert detection, threat visibility, proactive hunting, and threat response. Eliminate security infrastructure setup and maintenance, and elastically scale to meet your security needs—while reducing IT costs. With Microsoft Sentinel, you can:

    - Collect data at cloud scale—across all users, devices, applications, and infrastructure, both on-premises and in multiple clouds

    - Detect previously uncovered threats and minimize false positives using analytics and unparalleled threat intelligence from Microsoft

    - Investigate threats with AI and hunt suspicious activities at scale, tapping into decades of cybersecurity work at Microsoft

    - Respond to incidents rapidly with built-in orchestration and automation of common tasks

    To learn more about our solution, ask questions, and share feedback, join our Microsoft Security, Compliance and Identity Community.

    IBM Security QRadar is a security and analytics platform designed to defend against threats and scale security operations. This is done through integrated visibility, investigation, detection, and response. QRadar empowers security groups with actionable insights into high-priority threats by providing visibility into enterprise security data. Through centralized visibility, security teams and analysts can determine their security stance, which areas pose a potential threat, and which areas are critical. This will help streamline workflows by eliminating the need to pivot between tools.

    IBM Security QRadar is built to address a wide range of security issues and can be easily scaled with minimal customization effort required. As data is ingested, QRadar administers automated, real-time security intelligence to swiftly and precisely discover and prioritize threats. The platform will issue alerts with actionable, rich context into developing threats. Security teams and analysts can then rapidly respond to minimize the attackers' strike. The solution will provide a complete view of activity in both cloud-based and on-premise environments as a large amount of data is ingested throughout the enterprise. Additionally, QRadar’s anomaly detection intelligence enables security teams to identify any user behavior changes that could be indicators of potential threats. 

    IBM QRadar Log Manager

    To better help organizations protect themselves against potential security threats, attacks, and breaches, IBM QRadar Log Manager gathers, analyzes, preserves, and reports on security log events using QRadar Sense Analytics. All operating systems and applications, servers, devices, and applications are converted into searchable and actionable intelligent data. QRadar Log Manager then helps organizations meet compliance reporting and monitoring requirements, which can be further upgraded to QRadar SIEM for a more superior level of threat protection.

    Some of QRadar Log Manager’s key features include:

    • Data processing and capture on any security event
    • Disaster recovery options and high availability 
    • Scalability for large enterprises
    • SoftLayer cloud installation capability
    • Advanced threat protection

    Reviews from Real Users

    IBM Security QRadar is a solution of choice among users because it provides a complete solution for security teams by integrating network analysis, log management, user behavior analytics, threat intelligence, and AI-powered investigations into a single solution. Users particularly like having a single window into their network and its ability to be used for larger enterprises.

    Simon T., a cyber security services operations manager at an aerospace/defense firm, notes, "The most valuable thing about QRadar is that you have a single window into your network, SIEM, network flows, and risk management of your assets. If you use Splunk, for instance, then you still need a full packet capture solution, whereas the full packet capture solution is integrated within QRadar. Its application ecosystem makes it very powerful in terms of doing analysis."

    A management executive at a security firm says, "What we like about QRadar and the models that IBM has, is it can go from a small-to-medium enterprise to a larger organization, and it gives you the same value."

    LogRhythm SIEM Platform is an award-winning platform in security analytics. With more than 4,000 customers globally, LogRhythm SIEM is an integrated platform that helps security operations teams protect critical infrastructure and information from emerging cyberthreats. Ultimately, LogRhythm SIEM is an integrated set of modules that contribute to the security team’s fundamental mission: rapid threat monitoring, threat detection, threat investigation, and threat neutralization. LogRhythm SIEM is for organizations that require an on-premises solution and offers:

    ● Streamlined workflow

    ● Secure data access

    ● Real-time visibility

    ● A unified user experience

    ● Management customization

    Security information and event management (SIEM) solutions have been evolving for over a decade; their core functionality still acts as the most effective foundation for any organization’s technology stack. A SIEM solution enables an organization to centrally collect data across its entire network environment to gain real-time visibility into activity that may pose a risk to the organization. SIEM technology addresses threats before they become significant financial risks while simultaneously helping better manage an organization’s assets.

    LogRhythm SIEM has many key features and capabilities, including:

    High-Performance Log Management: LogRhythm SIEM offers structured and unstructured search capabilities which allows users to swiftly search across an organization’s vast data to easily find answers, identify IT and security issues, and troubleshoot issues. Users can efficiently process and index terabytes of log data daily.

    Network and Endpoint Monitoring: Forensic sensors allow users to gain deep visibility into endpoint and network activity. Users can see behavioral anomalies and better respond to incidents.

    SmartResponse™ Automation: LogRhythm SIEM allows users to centrally execute pre-staged actions that automate incident investigatory tasks and responses.

    Automated Machine Analytics: LogRhythm SIEM's AI Engine continuously analyzes all collected security incidents and forensic data. Security teams are delivered precise, real-time intelligence about risk-prioritized threats.

    Case and Security Incident Management: LogRhythm SIEM offers an integrated workflow so that threats don’t slip through the cracks. Collaboration tools help centrally manage and track investigations.

    User and entity behavior analytics (UEBA): Embedded deterministic UEBA monitoring helps protect against insider threats.

    Security orchestration, automation, and response (SOAR): LogRhythm SIEM includes our embedded SOAR solution to increase efficiency and higher-quality incident response with low mean time to response (MTTR).

    Benefits to Using LogRhythm SIEM

    The platform offers great value to security and IT operations. Users have the ability to map their security and IT operations to existing frameworks such as NIST and MITRE ATT&CK.

    ● The platform offers broad integration across security and IT vendors: Users benefit from support for integration with hundreds of security and IT solutions. In turn, this further extends SIEM capabilities and data collection.

    ● The platform provides compliance adherence, enforcement, and reporting: The prebuilt compliance modules automatically detect violations as they occur and remove the burden of manually reviewing audit logs.

    Reviews from Real Users

    LogRhythm SIEM stands out among its competitors for a number of reasons. Two major ones are its ability to be customized and its quick performance of queries.

    Jason G., a senior cybersecurity engineer, writes, "I have found the Advanced Intelligence Engine has provided the most value to us because we can customize alarms based on our requirements and have created hundreds of alarms that notify different people for different scenarios."

    Andy W., principal consultant at ITSEC Asia, notes, “LogRhythm SIEM covers all our primary security analysis needs. It makes it easier for us to analyze threats and improves our response times. It's a versatile platform that performs queries fast compared to other SIEM solutions.”

    Sample Customers
    Microsoft Sentinel is trusted by companies of all sizes including ABM, ASOS, Uniper, First West Credit Union, Avanade, and more.
    Clients across multiple industries, such as energy, financial, retail, healthcare, government, communications, and education use QRadar.
    Macy's, NASA, Fujitsu, US Air Force, EY, Abbott, HD Supply, SAB Miller, UCLA, Raytheon, Amtrak, Cargill
    Top Industries
    REVIEWERS
    Financial Services Firm22%
    Computer Software Company11%
    Manufacturing Company8%
    Comms Service Provider8%
    VISITORS READING REVIEWS
    Computer Software Company16%
    Financial Services Firm10%
    Government9%
    Manufacturing Company7%
    REVIEWERS
    Financial Services Firm23%
    Computer Software Company15%
    Comms Service Provider10%
    Security Firm6%
    VISITORS READING REVIEWS
    Educational Organization18%
    Computer Software Company15%
    Financial Services Firm10%
    Government7%
    REVIEWERS
    Financial Services Firm26%
    Healthcare Company11%
    Energy/Utilities Company9%
    Manufacturing Company7%
    VISITORS READING REVIEWS
    Educational Organization37%
    Computer Software Company9%
    Government6%
    Financial Services Firm6%
    Company Size
    REVIEWERS
    Small Business33%
    Midsize Enterprise21%
    Large Enterprise47%
    VISITORS READING REVIEWS
    Small Business25%
    Midsize Enterprise16%
    Large Enterprise59%
    REVIEWERS
    Small Business39%
    Midsize Enterprise15%
    Large Enterprise45%
    VISITORS READING REVIEWS
    Small Business20%
    Midsize Enterprise29%
    Large Enterprise50%
    REVIEWERS
    Small Business23%
    Midsize Enterprise23%
    Large Enterprise54%
    VISITORS READING REVIEWS
    Small Business18%
    Midsize Enterprise46%
    Large Enterprise36%
    Buyer's Guide
    IBM Security QRadar vs. LogRhythm SIEM
    April 2024
    Find out what your peers are saying about IBM Security QRadar vs. LogRhythm SIEM and other solutions. Updated: April 2024.
    768,246 professionals have used our research since 2012.

    IBM Security QRadar is ranked 6th in Log Management with 198 reviews while LogRhythm SIEM is ranked 7th in Log Management with 166 reviews. IBM Security QRadar is rated 8.0, while LogRhythm SIEM is rated 8.4. The top reviewer of IBM Security QRadar writes "A highly stable and scalable solution that provides good technical support". On the other hand, the top reviewer of LogRhythm SIEM writes "The solution reduced our investigation time from days to hours and assists in managing our workflows". IBM Security QRadar is most compared with Splunk Enterprise Security, Wazuh, Elastic Security, Fortinet FortiSIEM and Sentinel, whereas LogRhythm SIEM is most compared with Splunk Enterprise Security, Wazuh, Fortinet FortiSIEM, LogRhythm Axon and Elastic Security. See our IBM Security QRadar vs. LogRhythm SIEM report.

    See our list of best Log Management vendors and best Security Information and Event Management (SIEM) vendors.

    We monitor all Log Management reviews to prevent fraudulent reviews and keep review quality high. We do not post reviews by company employees or direct competitors. We validate each review for authenticity via cross-reference with LinkedIn, and personal follow-up with the reviewer when necessary.